From Bed Bugs to Business Owner

My guest today is strong, both literally and figuratively, and is a proud business owner.  She went from living in an absolute horrible condition filled with drug dealers, prostitutes, bed bugs, and everything else associated with the lifestyle.

She would continue through her early years in and out of jail, eventually spending a full year in jail.  She did get out after 7 months but quickly returned after not being able to pass a simple drug screen.

Fast forward to today where she focuses heavily on her spirituality, program, helping other women achieve success through better nutrition and working out.  She is a fitness guru, owns her own business which is tailored to suit specifically women!

As always if you would like to be a guest or know someone, please send me an email cleanorsobercolumbus@gmail.com

Transcript

. Yeah. So let's start with your sobriety date. I think that would be the easiest way to kick it off. All right. So my sobriety date is February 13th, 2015. So coming up on it. Yeah, like seven years. I've been in the room since 2012. So 2012 is the last time I shot dope or had a drink, but I had a, like a week long relapse in 2015.

After actually working all of the steps, so, wow. Yeah. Grateful to be able to make it back that quick. I mean, usually it takes some, you know, monumental explosion or some huge level of surrender to bring people back again. So very lucky and fortunate. Yeah, no, I absolutely am. I probably would've kept going.

It was just such delusion. I was taking a prescription medication and it was a painkiller and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna take a little bit more of this there. I want to take it before the six hour mark. And like, maybe it's a good idea to stick it up my nose now. And you know, I went to my sponsor and told her I might have relapsed.

And she was like, just laughed at me. You know, it was, it was so delusional, but good sponsorship. I got back really quickly. Just the fact that there have been many times like that, where I've asked. Sponsor like a question. I forget what it was about, you know, anything, it could be anything like, you know, wanting to hook up with somebody or, and his, his response has always be, I think, I think just the fact that you're bringing it up as the answer, you know what I mean?

Just the fact that you have to run it by somebody should be, should be like an indicator of the madness that you're going through. So I do want to kind of pitch up front, you know, just so that they can get it out there. You know, just talk about your business really quickly. If there is anybody who's listening that you know, wants to get active, wants to get fit.

I believe he has a lot of online shit. That sounds really great. So just tell people about it and then you know, how they combined it. Is it online, maybe your social media stuff? Yeah. So I have a business with my sister it's called pocket bond fitness, and we help women. And we're looking for women who want to lose weight, get fit, transport.

Specifically, we're looking for women who want to actually do it. Not anyone that's looking for, like a quick fix someone that's with it, you know, longterm, we do customized training, customized nutrition specifically for you. We test hormones now to help you really troubleshoot, lose the weight that you want to lose.

And we have a really awesome community. So all of our clients are an a community on Facebook and on WhatsApp. So, you know, you don't have to go through that journey alone. So yeah, you can find us on Instagram at pocket blonde fitness or our website pocket bond, fitness dot. That's awesome. Yeah. Too bad.

I'm not a woman and I'm 6, 3, 2 80 and have your hands. Literally. I feel I could help you. Men lose weight much easier than women. It's really not fair at all. So why is that? What's the science behind that? So men have more testosterone, which makes it easier to lose weight women. We make children.

So naturally we like carry more fat to be able to support that. And you know, our hormones are different. The more muscle you have, the more lean body mass, the more weight you can lose and women naturally don't have as much. So we're kind of just in a different ball game than men bullshit. Yeah, we did do an entire different podcast on gender inequality and to start a movement here.

Anyway, so I, what I kind of want to go to is you mentioned upfront that you. Was in started this, this whole journey in 2012, but at some point I know it's fucking annoying. You can't do much about it. Like, is it because I'm short? No, I don't know. Just does it. But but then he relapsed and something you mentioned, which is not usually the case, usually the, everything that I see from, you know, having a little over 10 years anecdotal as it is, but seeing a lot of people is, are people that a, haven't been through all 12 steps, but on top of that, if they have, they start shedding or they're not doing some type of service, they're not sponsoring people, they're not active in a program, but so just kind of tell me kind of what led to that decision and kind of how that worked out.

Yeah. So I. I came in in 2012, you know, basically like off the street with nothing, did everything I needed to do to get sober worked in honest fifth step, I was actually sponsoring women. And you know, when you get sober, you get your life back. And one thing that I got really into it was a big thing for me, is working out being the, you know, junkie that I am, I was working out that wasn't good enough.

I wanted to, you know, take it all the way. So I started training for bodybuilding and that basically became my life. It was, you know, I was in the, I was working full time. I was in the gym, you know, like two hours a day, plus posing practice plus weighing my food. Plus if you've ever seen a bodybuilder, like you basically have to starve yourself, So I was just not in a good mood.

And what happened was that started to push recovery kind of away. And I had sponsees and I had a home group, but what would happen is I was so tired. I like was getting resentful, having to do this extra shit with bodybuilding. And this is just something that I'm usually ignorant about. And then maybe it's just a stereotype.

Like when you say that where you 100% just bodybuilding or did you have to do all the crazy negative shit that's associated with it? That could be as I'm really close to somebody that, that that's kind of was their thing for awhile. Like they'd stop using, but then that would kind of put them in the, you know, they'd be using, you know, extra shit testosterone.

He wouldn't grow with him more and like all these things. Sometimes they'd be getting illegally. So it was like that behavior. Did you, did, were you a part of that or were you just straight up a hundred percent? No, I was not. And I actually pride myself in being natural, so, and the bodybuilding world, there are different divisions, just the same as there are in powerlifting.

So some are drug tested and some aren't. So if you do the ones that are drug tested and you get caught, you know, using anything you're kicked out, like banned from the Federation, so period. Yup. I did it all natural. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, that would be difficult. Like he, he explained to me how like, just like the same behaviors almost, but like not even using a mind all cause sometimes he said it was, he was a little ragey button, but yeah.

So anyway, so yeah, that, I mean, honestly like that scared me. And even I did competitive power lifting. And no, a lot of people in that world and it's, it would be easy because it would, you know, make things a little bit easier for me. I wouldn't have to train as hard. I wouldn't be quite as hungry cause I had other, you know, substances, but it scares me if I was a guy, I think it might be different women.

The effects of taking things like testosterone are much different than when a man does it. So I've always steered clear of that. That's great. So you, you know, got back into the gut back into that super fucking resentful and then kind of what happened from there. So, you know, I start cut, not going to as many meetings.

It was kind of a fuzzy time, but I'm assuming my prayer game was, you know, like the things I do every day that keep me sober was starting to go away and I actually hurt myself. And there were a few other things going on, you know, my outside life, like being shameful about certain things, you know, and I hurt myself and I got prescribed Percocet and, you know, red flag, like I didn't tell anybody.

And it was the insanity of like, well, I've been sober and I have sponsees and I'm still going to meetings. Like, I'm just going to take this, you know, didn't run it by support. I didn't run it by anybody. And I would not recommend that. And I think that's that thing that they talk about where they're like, you know, you, you've kind of already relapsed in your mind, but the crazy thing is I didn't see that at the time.

I literally thought that I had it all under control and I kind of think I needed that, but. I got the prescription. I had full intentions of taking it as prescribed, you know, and I, I'm a recovering heroin addict, you know, and I start getting that like itch and I'm like, Ooh, this feels, you know, this is nice.

Like, I'm going to take it a little bit earlier this time. And I just remember like crushing one up and like getting ready to snort it. And like, in my mind, I'm like, yeah, I think you probably definitely relapsed now. You know, like one back and forth. I did the whole script and like three days and it was 15 days script or whatever, 30 isn't really.

Okay. Yeah. That's before that was years ago now I think you can, for most injuries, it's like 15 days is all you can get now. So I don't remember in days it was all really blurry and it's crazy. Cause I was still. I was actually managing a restaurant and I was like going into work, you know? And it, it was insane like how quickly it happened.

And it wasn't until I was out that I felt that shame. And I was like, I must have, like, I gotta call my sponsor. I really fucked up, you know? And it was a ton of ego for me. I didn't not want to admit that. That's what I hear. So many people want to come back usually way earlier, but they can't simply because of the judgment and the ego.

And realistically, you know, at the end of the day, like I say it all the time, like we're all gonna die. Like none of the shit really matters, but to tell somebody new, you know, it doesn't matter. Like there's going to be a large group of people that probably care, but who gives a shit. But that keeps people out for much longer.

It's so scary that it's just a simple ego ego thing. Keeping them out there. Yeah. My ego, you know, gets in the way a lot. I would be lying if I said it still didn't bother me. Like I still have the need to be like, well, yeah. My sobriety date is 20. Yeah. You mentioned it. I've been in the room since 2012.

Actually I came in 1999 when I was a teenager. Yeah. I need you to know. I haven't actually done dope since 2012, right? No, that's hard. Yeah. A buddy of mine's the same way we just talked about him on the, the, the, the baby. Oh, I think I heard that. Yep. He's he's, he's one that, that, that really struggles with that, you know, big time it's hard, same kind of story, same story, you know, relapse for just a short period of time.

It got fucking wild for a short period of time. Yeah. You're very, very lucky. We don't usually have that, that we don't get lucky like that. I thought about, you know, when my sponsor's like, yeah, you need to start out your time over. I'm like, so I wasted. My time on that. Like, why don't I, you know, like shoot some dope and smoke some crack?

Like that would be way better. Yeah. A friend that I'm close to, that's a primary counselor for this long-term program for men says that that's why it's so difficult. Because when you have time like to get it back a lot for a lot of people, it's very difficult because, you know, losing 90 days or losing six months isn't anything, you know, so a lot of people would just perpetually relapse after that.

So you're also, again an anomaly to come back and not, not fuck everything up and put some time together the seven years in February. Right. And you know, I, I put that on the 12 steps that I did work thoroughly before. Like if I didn't have that base, if I didn't have that sponsor, if I didn't have a home group and like had already switched all of my friends to people in recovery, no way I would have came from.

There's no way. Really. Yeah. I, I see so many people that just, just hide it and then eventually become honest. Like I've sponsored somebody, you know, that relapsed and I gave them like a medallion, you know, in a meeting. And then they told me after, you know, it's like you know, I don't give a shit. I was on their nine-step.

Like, it doesn't bother me at all. You know, I'm just a vessel for you, man. Right. So I guess rather than talk about, because you just kind of explained the surrender point there, which, you know, was it pretty quick? What was it like leading up to like the moment that you realized I need, like, I need a program.

I need something I I've got to stop. I would say what 2012. Yeah. So let's see. I. I hit, I probably went for a lot of people would be, you know, a lot of bottoms. Before I finally got sober, I, yeah, very high tolerance. I got sober originally when I was 22. And at that time I had already spent about a year in jail due to my using and here in Columbus.

So pick away county is actually where I'm from. So I was in the county for three months and then I got sent to a CBCF program and Portsmouth, Ohio, which is, I'm so glad that treatment is changing a little bit, you know, with, I feel like they're doing things differently now, but back then, that was a program for women that were felon felons.

And it was like a prison alternative or women could go. When they were leaving prison and it was a behavioral modification program. So you walked around with your hands behind your back and you called everybody miss. And, you know, I was in trouble all the time. I was always doing what was called, like a remedial task where you sit and you wipe things like just wipe one area on the wall for like 30 minutes.

I don't know, you know, why they thought that it helps like drug addicts, you know, at the time I thought prison would be better because I could do what I wanted. And here it was almost like, you know, bootcamp, but you are still in prison. You still wore the prison outfit and like the Jesus sandals and all of that stuff.

So, yep. No, they were brown. Yup. The, and I think there are a lot of programs like that, you know, here that are at least they're exposed to meetings a lot. So there's some hope in that. Yeah, but yeah. Anyway, so you're getting, getting locked up. Yeah. So I'd gotten locked up, you know, I had, you know, done all the, all the war stories, you know, like what, give me one, give me an example.

I'll get you back on track. I was just loving. So for a period of time, I, so I grew up in PicoWay county, which just to give you some perspective, it's like in the country suburbs, you know, white people, America, you know, if I'm being completely honest, small town and I had left there and I was living on the west side of Columbus, which is, I don't really know how to explain that, but I was living very accessible to what we need.

Yes. And I was living in this apartment with the. Dudes that were like freshly out of prison. And they were like a few prostitutes that were staying there. We didn't have electricity. So we were like stealing it. And the place we were staying was infested with bedbugs and you know, it was just a mess, like the insanity of it at the time, you know, I'm like shooting dope and I'm like, I'm gonna, you know, really get my life together.

So I'm gonna like get a job at. Granted, I have no boobs at all. So I don't know what I was thinking. And I just remember going into Hooters and having like track marks plus like bedbug bites, like all over my arms. And then like, I think they gave me the job and hired me like a week later. Cause that's the job anyway.

They're like, fuck it. We need somebody to wait tables. So that was embarrassing, but I mean, that was a pretty low point. I had, I remember I had bedbugs in my car too. I had like clothes in there at the place I was staying. And then I would like put, you know, the clothes in my car. And I remember we were riding around, you know, you, you meet random people and you go out together to get what you need.

And he was like in my back seat and he's like itching himself. And he was like, what, what is this? I feel like something's biting me. And I'm like, yeah, I don't know. No, I knew, but I told him, I didn't know.

Yeah, that was a, it's just like, damn. She just walks around with bed bugs. It's like a standard thing for her now. Like just to put it in perspective, you know, a year before that I was graduating from high school doing like competitive cheerleading. And I don't know, I guess like, I was never normal in high school.

Cause I was addicted to Oxycontin when I was like 16, but I'm still holding it together. Where did I go? Why did you get Oxycontin when you were 16? Did you get it prescribed or just, I did not get it prescribed, so I guess I can start like where I came. So from there, so as far as me like getting high, I truly feel like I have always been an addict.

I you know, other people like didn't think drugs were fun or whatever. And I remember once I started getting my hands on things, like I was very interested and I was always, you know, I will try, I want to try everything. At least one time. I made that rule for myself. I'm the same way. The only thing I have is sad and it's about as I never get my hands on DMT, but you know, I, that's my one thing, that's my one thing about everything.

I've done everything else, but never got my hands on DMT. I have to. Yeah. Next life for sure. For sure. I'm sure. I hope I'm not a drug addict to my next life. I'm over it. I'm over it. So I'm, you know, I'm trying to everything. I always say my first true love was ecstasy. I love rolling. I had a habit for dating guys that were much, much older than me and really bad.

So I had this boyfriend, I was like 16 and he was 20. What the fuck? And you know, opiate epidemic where like, this is 2006, seven. So when all of that's going on and there was Oxycontin everywhere. And I honestly, like, I didn't know what it was. I didn't know that you could get addicted. I just was trying things and you know, he was doing Oxy is, and so I started doing oxies with him.

And of course, when I started doing them, I love them. And people think, no, let's call them normal people, but they've their perception of what it's like on those. And maybe it would be, but for people like me and people, like I've heard it's, it's, it's an opposite effect. Like it's very energizing, you know, no pain.

It's just like, you're ready to do life. It's not a, what you see on intervention. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I agree. I mean, if you get really high, like you might not out, but you know what? I started doing like half of a 40 and you know, a day and then maybe like half an 80. And I was, you know, I was in high school, I was going to school.

I was doing competitive cheerleading. I'm going to cheerleading practice, you know, like right after I snorted in Oxy. And that was totally normal back then. And I remember, you know, like I was, I would go hang out with him after school. He would split his, his Oxy with me, his Oxy for the day. And one time he didn't have it.

And I like literally tried to beat his ass. I lost my temper, you know, and at that point I feel like that's when I realized it was a problem. And the, the dope sickness came shortly after and all of that stuff, you know, it was at the point where I was in high school and I was traveling. I did competitive.

All-star cheer. I'm traveling out of state to like Disney world, places like that. And I have to have drugs with me to be able to function. Yeah. That's horrible. Yeah. I wish you could explain to the users, like it's, it's a, it's terrifying. Like, you know, when you start to get the chills and the goosebumps and like, you just know shit's coming, like yeah.

The way that I kind of describe it is, you know, being an addict, especially with opiates, once you have that physical dependency, it is like, you need it. Like you need the air, you breathe, and it's not like you're going to run out of oxygen and die, but that's how it feels. And if you could imagine, you know, anyone listening that has never experienced that, like what it would feel like if you felt like you were running out of air and what you would do to get it.

Anything, anything. Yeah. Yeah. That's insanity. Yeah. And, and, and, you know, the physical shit that you're going through, like, you know, restless legs, not being able to sleep, everything, shits sneezing, and one substance in your immediately fine. Like immediately fine. Ready to continue on the day. Yeah. You know, you start, you start using it to to get normal.

It's like, you're dying and then you get it. And then like flip the I'm ready to go. You guys want to go clean, go do something fun. Yeah. Yep. So you're, bad-ass cheer later. What do you do to get into your first charge or what get, what did you do to give you a year in jail? Yeah. So those were the Oxycontin day as I start shooting dope.

Well, no, I got my charge when I was doing dope, but you know, a little bit of background on that again, and like maybe the insanity of using yeah. I remember, you know, I'm still on oxies so like I'm the good person and the people around me that I had started using with start, you know, doing heroin. And I remember, you know, I had some people with me and we were driving from Pittway county to Columbus to get some stuff.

And they had told me that we were getting oxies, but they only told me that because I still had a car and we get up there. Yeah. We get up there and they're buying heroin, not oxies, you know, and I remember driving this car and seeing them shoot dope in the back of my car. And I'm just like completely disgusting.

You know, the irony of like this one things worse than, yeah. I'm completely discussed it. And I'm like, how can you guys do that? Like, you know, and I'm really upset. So of course I snort some because I have to get well, and that's a junkie, so you're not going to shoot it. Right, right. But that's it last long, I mean, I was shooting, like shooting it within maybe like a month at the most.

And again, this goes back to the opiate epidemic, and I think that they had started regulating oxies. So like, you couldn't like remove the time-release, you couldn't get them as easily. Yup. Yup. So everyone kind of transitioned into shooting dope. So once I started shooting up, everything got worse way worse, got sicker, easier, went through more shit to get what I needed, you know, all of that stuff.

And I had that little phase on the west side of Columbus, like little west side girl a year, a year or so after I started shooting up, I think. And actually what happened is that house with bedbugs the guy that I was living with I'll leave his name out of it, but he was already a convicted felon.

And I don't know why I wasn't around at the time. Who knows who, the, where the hell that was, that he ended up getting charged for his third armed robbery. And he is actually in prison right now for 25 to life. I do look him up occasionally just when I'm thinking back on it. And I'm like, yeah. Cause it was like third strike.

So I didn't have that place to stay. And let me just say, when I was living there, I was living with like some prostitutes, but I was like, you know, Still looked decent enough to like sleep with the main guy. So I didn't have to, you know, go walk the streets on the west side. That's that's where I was at.

So do you think you would have, if you needed to probably, probably just being, you know, you're sick. Yeah. I think men we've joked about that. Like, I've joked about that with my friends. And it's like, if it's probably a good thing that men can't do that, you know, it's not an option because I, I fucking, w I'm 100% would have, if I was dope, sick, you know, it's cause like my option was like commit crime, you know?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so I was just the sidekick to whoever was committing the crime, but I would help out or sleep with them or, you know, I had this convenient thing of saying like the behaviors always I've always dated the drug dealer. Well, yeah, but it didn't matter how old the drug dealer was, what the drug dealer looked like.

I was 1920 and still, you know, like fairly good looking, I think. Yeah. That's basically what it is. Yep. Yeah. So, so, oh, so anyway, so I, I'm getting my dope up here. You know, living with the prostitutes and whatnot, sleeping with the main guy, he he goes away. So I have to go back to pick away county and I'm down there.

I actually was selling dope. I was a drug dealer for a minute too, so I still like had a connect. I thought it was a drug dealer. 

We're trying to find people to buy the dope that I have. Cause I would get like a gram at a time, you know, and then sell it and then go up and get more. And he calls someone and you know, we go to meet him at McDonald's. The guy was like, yeah, I'll take it.

I'll meet you here. Sold him the dope. Didn't know, I committed a felony later when I got indicted. It turns out that the person we had reached out to and sold to was a confidential informant, told us the place to meet, which also happened to be in a school zone. So it was all kind of, you know, set up. So I got let me think about it.

I mean, at the, at the end of the day, like we shouldn't be committing crimes. It's horrible, but just. Like it's fucked up to, to tack those things on top of it. Yeah, it is. And it's not, I mean, no, I'm not either. I'm just saying like, it's, it was totally set up though. You know, I was just trying to get rid of some stuff from somebody who was a known drug addict, who always buys it and, you know, he was like, oh yeah, meet me here was out of McDonald's, which happened to be in the vicinity of a school zone, which I had no idea.

So I got a felony for drug trafficking, felony, five permitting, drug abuse. So I had like two and a half years over my head. Yeah. And I ended up pleading guilty to like the good deal I got was pleading guilty to just the F for drug trafficking and then wedding. Then the other one would get drunk.

Did you have an attorney or was it just public defender? I did have an attorney and parents help with you to help you with that. My dad helped me get an attorney, I cannot say so. I don't think he was a good attorney. Wasn't really a criminal attorney. It was more so like, you know, my dad's business attorney, fucking CPA, just so happened to show up to your court date.

Yeah, I don't, I don't remember. I mean, obviously I didn't fucking like them because it's like, you know, I felt like I was getting fucked over and I still kind of feel, this is what I mean when I say there are a lot of alternatives. I think now it's such as drug court, things like that, you know, and back then, I wasn't that old.

It was the first time I'd ever been in trouble, you know, and they sent me away and I kept that felony on my record until I got it expunged seven years later, that that's what you did. Yep. First charge. What the fuck? Yep. So they went ahead and they sent me away and my sister has an extensive criminal record and just got a bunch of trafficking charges.

She can't get it. She's not, I don't, I hopefully she does. I have one that has years and one that doesn't. But yeah, she didn't fucking spend, she spent like six months in jail, you know, for lots of time and lots of drugs, lots of drugs.

So I don't know a ton about that, but what I know is that where I'm from is a very. I don't know, like they all love Donald Trump. Is that okay to say whatever you want to say, it's open, which I'm not necessarily saying there's anything wrong with that, whatever. I'm not going to get into politics, but they're very tough on crime.

And at, at the time on drugs and it was just like, you know, anyone that's doing what they're not supposed to do, you know, there, it was, I don't even know if there is drug court there now, but it was just like, we're sending, we're sending them away. Yeah. The different counties are different. Like, I don't know if you know this, but in Delaware county on, I don't know if it's still there, but before, you know, I got clean and sober.

There was actually something that they had on the front. The judge had put on the front, like a posted thing that says, you're not, it says you're not in Franklin county. And I think it's because a lot of people would get like, you know, major bad-ass attorneys and then come there to try to run the show.

And he was basically. But I don't give a shit. What you're think you're here to do type of deal. So I could see that when you say you have a resentment towards, is it just in general or is it something that you've worked through with the steps when I say so. So I'm saying resentful about getting, is it a resentment towards that person towards that attorney, towards the judge?

Like, have you worked through that? I think I have. So I'm being a little bit, you know, if I'm being, so if I'm being completely honest with you, I do believe that everything happens for a reason. And if I had not went to jail, I prob I can't, I can't say for sure, but I was in a pretty low place. And who knows whether I would be alive or not just let you right back out.

Yeah. So did you detox in jail? I did detox in jail a few times. I right before I got in trouble, I kept getting like, the cops are onto me, I think. Cause I kept getting arrested for different things like driving under suspension or like they would get me on anything like an unpaid fucking parking ticket or something.

Yeah. And every time I'd get pulled over, I did take him into jail and they'd impound my car and like the whole thing. There she is again grabber. Yeah. The little town drug dealer. Yeah. You know me with my like Timberland boots and my hoop earrings. One gram, one gram over here gram at a time. So you get released what kind of, what happened when he got released?

Which time? So that for the year, did you get out and do any program related shit or did you go right back to using? I went right back to using, how long did it take when you were out? So. Not long at all. And you know, they always say that you pick up right where you left off. Is that true? It's very true.

So I had all this time and let me back up and say that I did that year in two different stents. Okay. Don't want to be like dishonest because I did get let out after I don't know, like seven months or something and I couldn't handle probation without getting high. And then I went back. I just had you do the additional time.

Yup. Yeah. And then when I got out I think that I turned 21 after I got out. So we'll start with that. And you know, I remember I wanted good little addicts though. We're going to. Well before we were 21. So it was never like an exciting thing for me. I hear my, like my normal friends, like, well, I finally get to go to a bar and get a shot.

And I was like, dude, I was sitting at bars at 16, right? Like major Woody's doing the Hottie body contest. I was like a junior in high school. So really it was just, you know, a thing in my mind. Cause I had already been to bars a ton, but you know, poor me. I have to like go to the bar on my 21st birthday.

I'm just turning 21. I can legally drink things are going to change. Just gotta stay away from the dope. That's the problem. Yeah. Yeah. It's not me. It's not alcohol. It's not anything else. And you know, that, that just never lasted very long. I never did like took myself out of the same place with the same.

And ultimately, you know, the dope was always still around and I always, you know, went back to it. You know, and for me, I think like the breaking point in me getting kind of sober after being in jail was I always did a really good job of like, you know, if everything looks okay from the outside, then I'm okay.

Or people will at least think I'm okay. And I worked really hard, not all the time. I'm like when I was living on the west side, but after I was out of jail, you know, I was like, I'm going to go to college. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. And that will keep people off my back, you know? So I start going to college and casually shooting dope for, you know, maybe a month, I don't know.

And It just like it, it never worked, you know, and at some point, right before I finally did decide to get clean, I quit going to school. I dropped out and it was kind of just like, you know, I don't care what my parents have to say. I don't care what anyone thinks of me. Like, I am going to get high. I need to get high.

I accept this as my lifestyle. And like, that's what I'm going to do. And that was on the place that I was at, you know, mentally when I surrendered, it's not the story, but that's yeah, yeah, no, I mean that a lot of people don't reach that level of honesty. Like, you know, I share all the time. I didn't like when I went, when I checked myself into treatment, I had no plans to stay in there and like, realistically, I didn't think I had a problem, you know, and it wasn't until I heard people speak in there that I realized like, you know, it's kind of sharing the same thing that I'm going through.

So a lot of people it's weird to think is. And intelligent as a lot of us are like that, that's the case. Like I didn't realize I had a problem. I had felony warrants when I checked myself in there. Didn't realize that a problem. You know what I mean? So do you remember the first time you used? So the first time I drank is actually that was what you used first was alcohol.

Yup. Okay. I remember, and I have no idea why, but I remember my dad making my cousin and I mudslides. Are they in the program? No. No. Okay. Just regular, just regular. So I remember that, but the first time, I guess, which is more significant to me, I decided to drink. I was in sixth grade, I think. And I'm with a really good friend at the time she had older sister.

And they all partied at the house. They were in high school, her older sisters, and I think they were graduating from high school and how to party with alcohol, you know? And I'm like little, I don't know, 12 year old me over there. And we had screwdrivers, so vodka, orange juice. And I think I have like maybe one glass of it.

And, and we were a wasted. I saw a picture somewhere from this night, you know, driving a golf cart around being nuts. And yeah, that, that was the first time I drank. And I can say that, that, that, like, from that point on how I said I was always interested in. You know that next year I'm smoking pot all the time and doing whatever I can get my hands on.

Just progressing, progressing on up until I'm addicted to Oxycontin at 16, 12 to 16, right? Yeah. The don't in terms of like, you've, you've mentioned a little bit, but what was your childhood? Like? My childhood is complicated, so I grew up in a very chaotic and violent house. There was domestic violence.

There was you know, I have a lot of stories about that. You know, like my mom getting her head busted open and me, you know, like packing my bags, like, come on, mom, let's go. Or like, you know, seeing blood on the floor. And like, my parents will still tell you that none of that happened. As part of my sobriety, I've had to work for that fucking honest about shit.

Like but it, it was very chaotic. It's still very chaotic if I go back today. But I think kind of the different thing was they are still together. So it's kind of like, no, not really. I like one of them to get divorced, but it's kind of a, a lot of blood like traumatic things that happen. It seems for some reason, indeed, despite all that insanity is, seems to be divorced, seems to be like a crutch for a lot of addicts and alcoholics.

Like it seems to be some fucking thing. I think it, I mean, I think it would have been better with divorce. What I know now that I didn't know then is fairly certain. My dad's a narcissist and my mom is extremely co-dependent on him. And she did try to leave a few times when you were younger and that ended.

And a very manipulative, like come back to me and type of way, you know, control things like that. And now I feel like she's kind of at the point where that's not going to happen. So I, you know, we, we worked through that and it's a process and I go to trauma therapy and things like that. But what I can say about my childhood is so all these things were going on in my home, but my dad, you know, in the small town we lived in was like a prominent guy, had plenty of money.

And our whole thing was like, well, we have a nice house and we have nice cars and I coach football. And like, you know, everything is very pretty from the outside, but we don't talk about what's actually happening on the inside with the chaos and domestic violence that didn't happen. Like you constructed some crazy shit like that in your head.

Yeah. My mom has been very old. My mom is very honest, but that same type of household, you know, that I grew up in my father was shot and killed when I was a year old. And so she was always with like horrible, horrible, fucking abusive people, you know, she's an alcoholic. So she she's pretty crazy. So she, a lot of these situations, guys, might've been trying to defend themselves to be quite honest, but knowing her the way she was, she was very violent and a martial artist crazy as shit, but very wild, very wild childhood and remembering, you know, hearing, hearing her getting beaten or the pillow, some really crazy like traumatic, the most dramatic was hearing her being like smothered, you know what I mean?

Like shit like that, you know? Like, just so, yeah, but she she's honest about. Yeah, my mom, it's, it's really twisted, you know? Yeah. It is. It's so, so fucking weird that there's no, there's no incentive for them to be dishonest anymore. Like you're grown, you're out, it's over that. They're just living their lives.

Okay. It's like, it's embarrassing almost to them. I mean, it's still the same way. I lived with them for a short period of time in sobriety when I quit my job and started my business. And I mean, it was awful. And it was then when I was living with them, you know, you know, the freedom to build your, build your shit up, you know?

Yeah. And it also put me in a place where I'm like, it's time to go to trauma therapy. Like you guys want to come now. We're good. We don't have anything that we do. You, you could use it, mom. Nothing's wrong here. But yeah, that's, that's the outside help, I think is a whole nother. Yeah. I say that to people all the time, like the, a.

Clear here, like the A's required, but just like anything else, like there layers of, of self-help like, you know, the a is not the going to be the end all and all, you know, whether it's an AA, whatever the fuck you go to now, there's D a, which seems pretty cool. What the fuck is that? You haven't seen it.

Yeah, it's starting. It's it's been around for awhile, but it's coming here. There's one on Wednesday. I haven't been to it yet, but I've always agreed with this and understood the issues that AA faces because pretty much the traditions are just shit on nonstop because the standard straight up alcoholic does not exist.

I mean, I do know if you, a couple young ones I've had in my sober house, which I always find it weird when it's just like twenty-three year old kid that straight. Like an alcoholic. I'm like, what the fuck that doesn't normally happen doesn't normally happen? But no, D a is basically just drug addicts anonymous and it's it's the big book, but what it's basically AA, but with drugs also pretty cool narcotics anonymous, just out of curiosity, because they don't go through the big book.

It's separate literature. Yeah. It's it works. How and why? And the basic text then nothing, nothing big book-related. So you know, it just pretty much alcoholics anonymous with drugs, which is pretty much what alcoholics anonymous. That's primarily where I go and I've had some old timey sponsors who are, I don't know, like bitch nap about the traditions and I get it.

I get why they're important to protect, but yeah, the clarity and the message, you know, you're not making shit confusing. You know, it'd be like going into an Overeaters anonymous meeting and wanting to talk about drugs. Like it's like drugs and alcohol are the same thing I agree. And the way that I try, I'm like, what the fuck is the difference?

Because I think that we both go to that place of like, you know, the, what's the word I'm looking for? Obsessive compulsive, obsessive. Yeah. But the that same dark incomprehensible demoralization. That's why I explained my bottom. And I think that if you get to that, whether it's alcohol or it's drugs is the same thing, you know, to work the 12 steps out of the big book, in my opinion, Right.

So the, the other thing I wanted to kind of talk about is you talked about the rat hole, the rabbit hole. I liked the way you worded that the rabbit hole of spirituality. What what's, what's what's that about rabbit hole of spirituality, I think is the best way to describe it. Absolutely. I, you know, due to being sober and working the 12 steps, I have a higher power of my own understanding.

And because of that, I can call it whatever I want and, you know, through really like the 11th step and like trying to focus on meditation and things. I feel it's been my experience that once I started meditating consistently, I kind of opened up this door to like so many other things, which I would call a rabbit hole.

And I love it. I, you know, And, and like that has led me into all types of things that I would've normally been closed off to. Such as like, you know, I'm, I'm really into like seeing psychics past life regression type stuff, you know, I've changed. I do believe that we live multiple lives and, you know, a soul having a human experience.

I absolutely believe that. And I think that that kind of path is never ending as long as I am open-minded and willing to try new things and I just get jazzed about it, you know? And I'm so glad, like so grateful for being sober that I, you know, I grew up in a Christian household, well, they call themselves cautious, you know, they went to church, you know?

Yeah. And I never felt connected to that and Christmas. Yes, exactly. And Easter Easter, don't forget Easter. And I never felt connected to that, but through being able to define my own higher power, I still don't necessarily know what that is. And that's kind of what I mean by the rabbit hole of spirituality, because I'm always looking into different stuff, whether it's Buddhism, Taoism I don't even think it has to necessarily be a religion.

I just take a little bit from everywhere and I can kind of take that rabbit hole, like in any direction. Right? No, I think that that's a great description. So I'm glad I brought it up and heard you say it. I've, I've wondered about, there's a really something I've been interested in and maybe you could share your experience on this if you've looked into it, but like a silent retreat.

Have you heard of those? I have heard of those. I've never done them on, but I have heard of them and a friend of mine. I know you know who he is. I'll tell you after, but he's talked about these these huts here. That you go to that are like, like heat, heat, huts. I dunno what sweat lodge. Yeah. There's, there's one here.

And I guess there's like several doors that you're supposed to go through and he didn't make it past the first. And they stayed in there for all eight and we're like saying and shit, and he thought he was going to die after the first seemed pretty fucking crazy. He said, you should go. And I was like, you just said, you just said it was the most terrifying experience you've ever had until you thought you were going to die, but actually go no, but the silent retreat, there's several close to this state that are free.

And that to me, like shows somebody that understands how important like spirituality is when it's like that. When. The benefit behind it. They do accept donations at this location. I can tell you about it, but they only accept donations if you complete it. Like, it's such a fucking, like, you know, when some places offering that, that the benefits and the, and the real shit behind it, it's not like some, you know, bougie, you know, resort, like, which I'm sure there's benefits to those locations as well.

And there are some places like that, but yeah, so that sounds very interesting. I would definitely be down to check something like that out. I've done. I was doing like meditation with other people at a non-denominational church for a while. And, you know, and they do a silent retreat as well, where it's like a few days where you're just meditating, you know, doing nothing and shit like that is really cool to me.

Buddhist placed on, on the street out here. But you go down. So what does your program look like today? Well, like a standard program, shit standard program shit. So I still go to my home group. I've had the Sam home groups since 2012. And you just feel destined to dab the same home group. Like you'd be giving up on it or you just seems like, you seem like you like to change a lot up, but you haven't changed that I haven't for a long time.

So I truly feel like that home group and those people saved my life. Like I said, I came in when I was 22 and it's a, it's a meeting that a lot of young people attend now I'm 32. So I'm like above the, the age range now we're making it older. I'm making it older. But just the importance of having younger people in the rooms and they always do a first step meeting there.

And the first time I attended that meeting fresh out of my last detox after my first step meeting is a meeting where you talk about just the first step. So admitted. We were powerless over alcohol, that our lives had become unmanageable. And it, it breaks up into two things. So one side of the room goes over all 12 steps.

And the other side of the room goes over. Only the first step and sitting in that meeting is where I heard people my age at the time, talking about their experience from the first step. And I just started crying. Cause I'm like, I get it. I am powerless taught. Yeah, it's all about me. And they're talking about me and someone finally understands.

And you know, I chaired that meeting last Friday. Cause it's good to go there, even with some sobriety and here, remember the insanity when you're still kind of coming fresh out. So it's hard though. Just like with any home group, lot of the same people have been in it. It's on Friday nights. I don't necessarily need a Friday night meeting anymore, but for right now, until I find something better, I'll be there.

Yeah. Another really cool thing that I'm doing right now is going to the jail. So the women's jail here in Columbus. I go there with two other women every other week and we get to go into the jail and then leave I kid to go in and leave. And one of you said the Headland. Can I ask you this question?

Because I I've, I I've never been in there, but I always feel. I would be really worried that something's going to come up when I go there. Do they check anything on you or do you, if you just get to go in, so they had to run like a full background check on me before I went in. I've had some other people that have wanted to go in.

You have to be out of trouble for a certain amount of time. I'm actually really funny. I got you know, I've been sober for a minute, like, and I remember I've been in the room since like 2000. Okay. Sorry. So speaking, in terms of family, I got a letter from the jail delivered to my parents' house cause I was using their address for awhile.

And it was basically just for me to. Turn in my, you know, like fill it out for another background check that they do annually. And I got it. And my brother works with my dad there and he gets it and he like takes it to my mom. He was like, Lucy has a letter from the Franklin county Sheriff's department.

Like, what do you think she did? And you know, like all these years later, like there's still traumatized something that, something she's probably using it again, something's going wrong. And my, my mom calls me. I'm like, I bet it's like to fill out my application. Do you want to open it while we're on the phone?

So yes, they do do background checks. And so what do you guys do when there is just a meeting? It is a meeting. So we open up, you know, a regular format, the way you would, any meetings. Talk about the steps and we generally take, and we keep the readings pretty simple. So like a grapevine, you know, the grapevine.

No. So great. Vine is it's a, and it's where. People in the fellowship, like write stories in, and then it's published in a little magazine called the grapevine. So we usually do a reading out of there and like a daily reflection, try to keep it simple. And we just talked to the women in there. It doesn't necessarily go like a normal meeting and that's okay.

Just because you're talking to a bunch of people who understand the process of recovery sobriety. Right. So we kind of open it up for them to talk about what they're kind of going through and, and we will do the readings just to throw that in. And then it's like, you know, what can you guys relate to on this?

But we let them, you know, ask us questions or kind of share what they're going through. And it's kind of like coach them through it. Like, you know, they're in this place and it's like, yeah, you're not alone. You know, that's the insanity that we all go through and I was in your shoes, you know, and we asked them.

If either they're going to prison or getting out, if they have like a treatment center lined up or anything like that, to try to, you know, steer everybody on the right direction and show them that you can get out of that cycle if you want to. So that's, that's pretty. Yeah, no shit. It is. I do that on Thursdays for a treatment center.

You know, every Thursday for treatments that are, but that's my best day of the week. Not that like somebody that's like desperate and that was the one thing like you just shared, you know, like, oh my God, they're talking about me. I think everybody goes through that. You know, that's new. Like you hit, you're like, fuck, I didn't even bring this up.

Like, there's literally. My story, they're talking about me. And then what what'd you say, I really like to ask this, especially for women, because you know, you definitely go through a lot more struggles, especially with dealing with people, dealing with fucking men sometimes with, you know, time sometimes without time.

But what's the most important thing as a woman in early recovery to really get through what I would consider like the first six months, which, you know, to me building up that time and distance from the last to the next, like there's some tools in between versus, you know, having a thought and then going and using like obsession to compulsion.

So as a woman, like what, what were your ways that you really were able to get over those hurdles in early recovery and sobriety? And I could name a few. One of them is not, I don't think directly related to being female. One thing I always tell the women in jail is, you know, I knew I was ready to change when I changed my phone number.

That was huge for me. You know, then my, my dealers didn't have my number. I couldn't reach out to them. You know, when I needed anything, I didn't have people calling me. You just randomly, you know, you get the calls that was really, really big for me. And I think that is such a huge commitment to really kind of leave that lifestyle behind and be like, okay, I'm open to something new.

And females specifically, it's really, really, really important to have a sponsor and a few women, definitely a sponsor and some women with some time around you for me. And I think it happens to a lot of women, you know, w we're not saying, but we come in and we see dudes and, you know, Start hooking up with people when we're first coming in.

And for me, I did make that mistake and it was very detrimental as in like, I didn't have the tools to handle the heartbreak, you know? And I come in and I'm co-dependent and I'm a mess and I have no self worth. And then I'm sleeping with this guy and I'm like, oh, you've been sober for three years. Like you have your entire life together.

And I worship you just because, you know, fresh off the street. Like, I didn't understand what that was like. And I'm not saying that he necessarily did anything wrong. He was, you know, getting his needs met as well, but I didn't have, I wasn't able to cope with that. I stayed sober because I had a really good sponsor who got me in the.

You know, and I, it was hard for me to be honest with anybody at that time as well. So I had to learn to like, trust her sponsor, including the sponsor. Just, I don't know, you know, I had never knew what it was like to be honest with people when I was coming in. So it took me a while to build that trust, but she was still there.

And I also had some other women and some like running buddies, I think running buddies are important. The girl that was my running buddy when I came in is still one of my really good friends today. I think I'm actually gonna, no, I think she's out of town, but I'll see her a lot on Sunday nights, actually, you know, this long later she was one of my best friends and we kind of went through hell and back in early sobriety and build those bonds.

Yeah. Support is good. Yeah. Those early, early, super early. Mistakes are always really good opportunities. You know, I've shared so many times in my story, like being a nightmare for like the first two years, you know, in terms of that shit. But like the growth, unfortunately through lots of pain for other people, myself, like there's tons of growth in that, you know?

Cause you kind of, for me, you know, I just, I learned what I wanted, what I don't want and just lots of mistakes, you know, lots of opportunity for growth. So right at the silver lining on it. I gotta remember that still today girls comes through pain. Yeah. A hundred percent. Why I appreciate the shit out of you and I appreciate you coming on here.

So of course.